Level III tips(1) because, prepared, everyone, only

venson

Failed L3 - any suggestions?
Author: preacherman
Date:   Tuesday, August 12 @ 8:27 pm

Congrats to everyone who passed: I answered Richard L with the same message.

unfortunately I failed L3, and by the looks of the postings on this site I think I am the only one. L3 is my white whale. I passed L1 and L2 on the first try and this was my third shot at L3. My first time around I really was not prepared, I was working too much. Which was a shame because it was not a hard exam.

The second time was last year - I just used the Schweser notes and I studied enough but I still didn't feel prepared after I left, I needed more than the notes. This time I studied the FAR notes and I did a lot of the readings, especially the fixed income and quant stuff which I knew cold.

I have always done well in school classes getting top grades in difficult math and engineering classes. I really felt I understood the stuff. The questions I have the most trouble with are the Portfolio Management questions. These questions have a lot of unessessary information, if I read it fast I make mistakes and if I read it slow I run out of time. I don't think I finished the morning session of any of the L3 exams I took. This year I left one or two questions blank and last year it was three questions.

If I decide to take it again, I think I will need to do a lot of practice questions. Does anyone know a good provider of test type questions for L3 that has a lot of questions. Modus advertised 10,000 test questions that cover all the material in the readings - but I am a bit of a skeptic at this point. Does anyone know these guys. I heard that Pass Pro has a lot of questions but there are a lot of mistakes for L3 and I dont know the quality of the questions.

Any other suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

venson

Re: Failed L3 - any suggestions?
Author: valcon
Date:   Friday, August 15 @ 12:53 am

Stuffed up L3 last year. Got through this year luckily.

What I did different this year was I did not "study" at all. Rather I just got my hands on heaps of questions and started practicing questions from Day 1. Then when i got stuck ( totally forgot the stuff), went back to the books and just drilled into the topics until I could do the questions without thinking.......

I also switched from Scheweser to Stalla, which I found more useful because Stalla's questions were harder and kept me reading the note or learn by osmosis.....

All the best.


Re: Failed L3 - any suggestions?
Author: preacherman
Date:   Friday, August 15 @ 2:50 am

Thanks to everyone for the insightful advice.

I think the concensus is to do lots of practice problems and Pass Pro and Excel Tests (now a part of Schweser) seems to have the best problems.

Does anyone know if the Schweser questions in the Schweser Pro online are the same questions that are at the end of the section of the notes. If they are the same questions, than it is some what of a rip off to purchase the questions that you would already have in the notes in another format for more money. Schweser likes to do that and they say that they are selling it in a different way because people learn differently and may prefer one media to another.

I've seen Stalla and I wasn't crazy about them.

I never heard anybody review Modlin or BISYS.

I saw a sample of Figov's notes on the website and they looked concise. The problem is that its hard to judge someone's notes looking at the ethic section. I would rather see a sample of Derivates, PM or FI.

venson

Re: Failed L3 - any suggestions?
Author: 2times
Date:   Wednesday, August 13 @ 11:35 am

man do I feel like ****. This was my second shot at Level 3 and I FAILED again. Last year, I used the low pass rate as an excuse, can't do that this year. I actually thought that I passed this year, but WOW did I BOMB the morning section. Did alright in the afternoon yet, I INEXPLICABLY failed Ethics, come on, how did I fail ethics and get above 70 on Fixed Income a section I know nothing about. I got a 52 on the 40/60/80 game although I really don't know how good a barometer that is. I really don't study nearly enough as I should for this, so really I have no one to blame but myself, but its really hard to imagine that I am going to have to go through the same process again this year, it just hangs over your head all the time. I definitely have to change my plan of attack for next year but this just couldn't suck anymore.



Re: Failed L3 - any suggestions?
Author: MontyBurns
Date:   Wednesday, August 13 @ 11:35 am

I BARELY passed....55% on 40/60/80.

I did well in all sections, but failed ALL PM sections.
I thought I was well prepared for PM.....having wrote a list of every single possible constraint/horizon/tax answer. I thought memorizing this list and then cut and paste on the exam would work....BIG mistake.

Even though there have been hundreds of practice PM questions, AIMR manages to find a way so that you cannot cut and paste answers from previous PM questions. This years PM question gave me a curve ball, especially that part with the young kid dieing before the old lady, etc. This confused me and prevented me from applying past answers to the question.
I don't know if there is a technique for PM questions since memorization will only get you that far.

Luckily I passed, but if I didn't, my strategy would be to spend less time studying PM and more time on the Ethics, Quant, Hedge funds, RE, etc.
I spent waaaaay more time on PM this year, and couldn't even get one PM section over 50...its way to subjective.

The ONLY reason I passed this year was because I got 50-70 in all other non-PM sections, and I spent 1/5 the time combined on all those other sections compared to PM.


Re: Failed L3 - any suggestions?
Author: slade
Date:   Wednesday, August 13 @ 11:36 am

" I also used the audio's CD’s at night while reading the notes (It help to keep my mind focused on the material). ......"

That's a good idea Alec.

"....about the SSFA. It’s a 1 week program with over 50 hrs at the University of Windsor . The food and accommodation were terrible but the program was excellent. Doubtful I would have passed if I hadn’t attended......"

I thought the food was good, but the accommodations & program terrible. It was just too hard to hear and see the instructors and the dorm room was a joke. But there is a lot to be said for having 1 full week with nothing to do but study. I skiped 1/2 the classes and studied on my own instead.

I thought the Schweser notes were excellent (memorize The Secret Sauce). By the way the Allen notes were terrible. I switched to Schweser in early April and that saved my ass..

Passed L1 & L2 first sitting and I might consider the SSFA next year for L3 if Schweser can convince me they will improve the Audio/Visual.

venson

Re: Failed L3 - any suggestions?
Author: TheGuru
Date:   Wednesday, August 13 @ 11:39 am

My advice is to use the textbooks and do the questions at the end of the relevant chapters. The Fabozzi and Quant books have excellent questions which are stylistically similar to what could appear on the Level III Exam. Good luck.


Re: Failed L3 - any suggestions?
Author: pocahontas
Date:   Wednesday, August 13 @ 11:43 am

I think it's hard to do well on the morning section, at least on the more subjective questions, so one should really try to nail down the afternoon section.

Studying the end of chapter questions from the textbooks, and going over the past AIMR exam questions are key, as well as doing as many mock exams as possible.

Not a great fan of reading the texts, especially if you are time constrained.


Re: Failed L3 - any suggestions?
Author: 2times
Date:   Wednesday, August 13 @ 12:02 pm

Oh man,

If I had passed ethics I likely would have passed the exam, this is unbelievable.


Re: Failed L3 - any suggestions?
Author: Ryan J.
Date:   Wednesday, August 13 @ 12:06 pm

Chi-Town,

Hang tough buddy. I'm about to become a lowly Level II candidate, so I can only imagine how much work you've already put into this program. That said, all that work WILL NOT go unrewarded. You can and will pass Level III and your victory will be all the more sweeter having faced down the challenges and disappointments along the way.

For what it's worth and I'm sure you've heard this, but it's true,

"that which doesn't kill us makes us stronger"

While the CFA program comes close to killing us, it definitely makes us stronger.

Ryan


Re: Failed L3 - any suggestions?
Author: Riff
Date:   Wednesday, August 13 @ 12:32 pm

To all who failed Level 3...

I truly feel your pain - having finally passed on the third attempt, I can honestly say level 3 is the most grueling of the three exams. The funny thing is that I failed all the policy questions yet I write policy statements for individual clients frequently - whats up with that? The test is bullpucky and AIMR knows it.

As for suggestions, here is my two cents in order of priority:

1. KNOW ethics cold. Read the handbook and casebook - all topical readings as well. On test day always go with the most conservative answer (i.e. full disclosure). I was borderline with 54.7% - ethics was the only >70% in the afternoon - might have been the difference.

2. Rely on Schweser for complex material - derivatives, fixed income, etc. Attempt to read the candidate readings - I actually caught a break re-reading Alternatives-hedgefunds the night before- LUCKY

3. Don't try and learn everything. I saved time by ignoring derivates and parts of quant. Hammer the things you know.

4. Make your own notes - this is critical. I found just writing my notes helped my retention. Surprisingly, my recall was pretty good (for a change). In the past, I had relied on Schwesers flashcards.

5. Finally, it doesn't matter if you get 90% or 54.7% - just pass baby.

Good luck next year - Get back in the PIT - took me 8 long years to pass all three exams. Life gets in the way, but plug on people.

Riff

venson

Re: Failed L3 - any suggestions?
Author: Jiminy
Date:   Wednesday, August 13 @ 9:23 am

I certainly know your pain as I failed L3 last year after passing the L1&2 on the first try and L3 was supposed to be the "easy" one.

Fortunately I passed this year. What I think helped me is that when the essay answers came later in the year I didn't look at the answers right away. I did the questions as if I was taking the test. I didn't remember them that well anyway.

I probably answered them the same way I did on the real exam. Then I compared my answers to AIMRs. I found out that it wasn't so much what I put down for an answer but how I answered the question. That's half the battle. I feel this helped me squeak by in the morning.

Per prior posts, I agree if you can do well on AL which generally isn't that hard, ET and FI then your good to go in the afternoon.

Keep the faith. It's worth it in the end. As much as we ***** about AIMR, I guarantee you everyone who passed level 3 is proud to put CFA on their business cards.


Re: Failed L3 - any suggestions?
Author: CFA candidate
Date:   Wednesday, August 13 @ 9:42 am

Congratulation to everybody who passed Level 3.

Unfortunately, I was not part of the crowd. I felt like I overstudied and thought my memorization skills would help me on the exam. I was wrong. I start realizing that L3 is more application that memorizing the concepts. I am also weak on the debt and derivatives questions.

I would highly appreciate if anyone could give me some advice on resolving most of the debt and derivatives questions.

Thank you in advance.


Re: Failed L3 - any suggestions?
Author: Alec
Date:   Wednesday, August 13 @ 10:04 am

I was very lucky and managed to pass all 3 levels consecutively.

When I look at my scores for level 2 and level 3 l realized a lot of it is straight luck and I was fortunate to be on the right side of the bubble.

Having said that I studied for over 250 hrs per level.

Both times I attended the Study Seminar in Windsor and used the Schweser audio CD’s during my 1.5 hr commute. I also used the audio's CD’s at night while reading the notes (It help to keep my mind focused on the material). I have the audio for sale if anyone is interested in starting for 2004.

I couldn’t say enough good things about the SSFA. It’s a 1 week program with over 50 hrs at the University of Windsor . The food and accommodation were terrible but the program was excellent. Doubtful I would have passed if I hadn’t attended.

There's really nothing all that difficult in isolation in the curriculum. The real challenge is recalling the huge volume of info on exam day and having enough discipline to study for 200+ hrs.

Good luck. I know this must be very disappointing.

Alec


Re: Failed L3 - any suggestions?
Author: thechief
Date:   Wednesday, August 13 @ 10:43 am

Alec,

How much do you want for the audio cds?


Re: Failed L3 - any suggestions?
Author: repeater1
Date:   Wednesday, August 13 @ 10:49 am

venson

I am in the same boat as you my friend, and just looking to blow off some steam before i can think rationally again--i took level 3 for the third time as well and for the third time did better on multiple choice than i did in the morning session; 42% morning and 62% evening using the 40/60/80 approach.

any specific suggestions on approaching portfolio management questions; how long should each answer be (i used 1 line per point as a guide); bullets versus paragraphs; calculations versus qualitative observations; how can you differentiate your answer from that of your neighbor?



Re: Failed L3 - any suggestions?
Author: Chi-Town
Date:   Wednesday, August 13 @ 10:59 am

Betsy:

I know exactly how you feel... This was my second time at level III and I failed again. Unlike the year prior, I also new the material, yet my execution on exam day was very poor. Not only did I change 7 correct answers in the afternoon on my second pass through, but I realized I had 2/3 of the morning to go with an 1.25 hours left (my countdown timer stopped).

I really think that the afternoon is where you pass or fail. Go with your gut. I also agree with the post about stating the obvious in the PM question. Right now, with my tears sitting just below the surface, though it's hard to think about another spring being lost.

venson

Re: Failed L3 - any suggestions?
Author: Range
Date:   Wednesday, August 13 @ 3:38 am

Preacherman,

It appears from your post, though you don't mention how you did in pm section, that you had a prob with speed and the only way how to get around this, I think, is to do lots of practice questions, just as you note yourself.

I also had passed L1 and L2 on first attempts and did L3 for the 3rd time. This year I got a break. A year before I missed 2 questions in am section as well and had hard time in pm section due to time shortage but this year I did a lot of practice questions from Schweser disc and it was a way better.

venson

Re: Failed L3 - any suggestions?
Author: john UK
Date:   Wednesday, August 13 @ 4:04 am

Preacherman,

dont give up, sit the exam next year!!!

Our study group had the following strategy:

- Have a top score in ethics, Quant and AL

- Dont focus too much on old (PM) questions... even if this may sound strange... the older the questions the greater the risk that they relate to LOS, which arent relevant any more...
and this will only lead to confusion and destroys self-confidence
- stick to the basic structure within PM (individual and insti) and give them the clear and most important topics already mentioned above (35 yr old - a long time horizon, high risk tolerance, and so on...). If calculation seems to be to difficult, show some educated guess (I did this this year concerning the cashflow of this old lady and the child...)

IMPORTANT
- start with the constraits section, even if they tell you you shouldn't since those are the much easier and faster points and they allow you to get a better feeling for the objectives...
IMPORTANT
- partial credit is the key ... in any area
- dont loose in the morning session and win the game in the afternoon

- below is our checklist for Institutionals (Convert it in Excel)

good luck for next year!!!!!!!!

venson

Re: Failed L3 - any suggestions?
Author: dizzy
Date:   Wednesday, August 13 @ 5:47 am

I also flunked L3 this year

53.3% according to 40/60/80.

I absolutely bombed the PM questions and fixed income. I knew my responses weren't perfect, but I was surprised by how poorly I did. I think poor time management and lack of practice did me in, and boy do I regret it.

I passed L1 the first try and L2 the third try.

It'll be tough going into the office later today, especially with the pass rate being so high.


Re: Failed L3 - any suggestions?
Author: betsy
Date:   Wednesday, August 13 @ 7:02 am

Dude,

I'm feeling your pain. This was my 2nd time to take 3 and fail after passing 1 and 2 the first time around. I have no suggestions as I felt I knew the material cold but failed to perform - got bogged down in 1 or 2 essays, then in the afternoon screwed up on a section that I spent too much time on, realized it toward the end, but it was too late. Oh yeah, and when I cleared my calculator right before the afternoon session, the settings went back to default w/ only 2 decimals and I had forgotten how to change it back. Really threw me off and I'm sure made a difference with some calculations by the look at my scores. Still, scored 55.8% according to the 40/60/80 rule and passed ethics. Anyway, the wound is still raw. All I have is sympathy. I didn't feel like I could've been much more prepared than I was going in. The b@stards. I felt absolutely raped at the end of that exam.

Betsy

venson

Re: Failed L3 - any suggestions?
Author: Coterra
Date:   Tuesday, August 12 @ 9:05 pm

Preacherman,

Try not to let this deter you; perseverance is the key here. The best mode of attack for the upcoming year would to focus on areas where you are weaker (<50% grade).

This may sound cheesy but while studying try to rise above the idea of just passing the exam and learn the material; this should give you a deeper understanding.

Unfortunately you are correct on the extraneous amount of information given on PM questions (it appears that points are awarded those who skim over the material and answer the relative question). The key to those questions appears to be to reiterate the obvious (35 yr old - a long time horizon, high risk tolerance, and so on...).

Stick with it my man; it's just another year.

Cheers,