标题: career guidance please [打印本页] 作者: agulani 时间: 2011-10-15 05:18 标题: career guidance please
Hi All,
I have been a member at this forums for few years.
I would br greatful if you could take some time to read through some information about myself and help me make a decision. Thanks for your time and your valuable inputs.
I have an undergraduate degree in Computer engineering and an MBA Singapore. I am a CFA chartholder. I am 31 years old, I am married and have 2 kids. I have been working in Hong Kong since 2006 in the valaution team (investment bank). We are a team that review financial models, trades and advise the tarding desk on pricing, valuation issues and trade approvals for equity derivatives and exotics trades. We also work on the monthly price review of the trading books for the complex OTC trades. Its part of the finance department (back office)
Now my story might sound like a common cribbing you might have heard before on the fourms but I have had been thinking about this for a few years now. I feel that I cant just keep going like this and would have to atleast try something about it. Strictly speaking, I am in a middle office department , although involved in more modelling and quants side. I have been wanting to move to front office since the time I joined banking sector. May be my strategy or timing was not right (may be i should have waited or have gone to a smaller firm instead of accepting this offer after finishg my MBA). My base salary is around US$ 130k base plus around 30K (on average bonus).
Although financially and in terms of the firm, i am doing OK but there is not satisfaction in what I do. My friends from MBA started off at different pace but have managed to do better (some in smaller firms) and are currenl working in research, investment management, trading etc. I am not being jealous but am trying to explain that the people with same background have been able to get much better jobs (may be due to luck, timing, talent etc) These are the sector that really really attract me and that is the reason I have not given up hope and have been trying to move to front office. I really believ i would be happy and content man if I do what I like (even if I have to take a salary cut initially, to be there). In terms fo leanring, I try and keep my self uptodate when it comes to the products that I deal with and the markets. Getting a CFA charter was also one of these thting I did in order to try and get where I want to be.
I know mu situation is common and you would have heard the same from many other people. however, the desire to do something and not being able to get it, is quiote painful for me and it has been like that for past few years. i have tried for an internal move but it did not work out due to the timing (lay offs happening in FO) etc. Now with a family, i know my options might be limited but I still cant make myself agree to the fact that I might have to do this for rest of my life (i really dont want to do that).
there are a few options i have been thinking of. I would be really really greaful if you could share yoru expertise and guide me rhough this. I am flexible in terms of location and wont midn going to any developed location if I get an offer (far east, middle east, EU, US etc).
1. get another MBA. (from top US schools) and then hope that I would get a good offer I want
problems: money. this would literally eat all my savings which might not be a good idea given I have a family to support too. 2 years commitment (i would be one of the older ones if I start at 32 years of age). and worst case, i still might not get what I want. i have an mba already, i am not sure getting another one would be really helpful
Insead MBA is another option wherein I could spend 1 year and try ly luck with a better b-school name.
2. get an online MFE degree and dont leave my job. Standford has a program in HK wherein you have an option ot finish last semester on campus. Columbia has another one.
benefits (appl to option#1 too): will make it eeasier for me to apply and look outside my firm as I would have some good school name on my resume). given my background, If i also geta good quants degree, optins like strategist/quatns team might get open.
problems: again alteasy 50k us$ commitment. might not help very much as it will be online/distant learning. will have to manage family, job and degree (i think i will be abl to do this but wont be easy still).
3. try for an internal moves. i have been doing it. when I came in MA in early 2008, there were quite a few openings but i could not really avail them as I was new. then the crisis happened andthe hriign has not picked up so well after that. these days i dont see many postings internallt at all too. i have to admit that I might not be the smartest person when it comes to networking as it does require you to be a bit polcitical. I do have good relations with FO but i am usually upfront when I talk to them about any potential moves etc...i would say may be i havent been so lucky too
4. keep trying outside using networks, headhunters: i have been doing it since years. headhunter only get back if they have similar roles. i guess they just trhough my application into bin when they see i havent got the names of research, trading, Investment analysis etc on my resume. i try to use networks too but need someone who would really belive in me and woudl give me a chance so till now (local CFA chapter, alumni , friends etc )networks havent helped much
Thanks a million for reading my long email. I would really appreciate your inputs and would truly values yoru suggestions. I am starting to get a bit hopeless with option#3,4 and there has been much happening with these.
this though process has been going on for a while now and I really need to get some direction out of it.
Many many thanks for your help.作者: RoastBeef 时间: 2011-10-15 05:24
"tarding desk"
Wow, this typo could be a career-limiting move if it happened in the wrong place...
Anyway, you seem familiar. Have you posted here before? My question is, why do you think you haven't been successful in your job search? Do you think you are qualified but unlucky, or do you think that you lack the skills to move into a FO job? If it's the first case, then maybe it's just a tough job environment and you might get a break when the economy improves. If it's the second case, then maybe you should consider the Stanford or Columbia programs. $50k is not that much if you believe that you stand to earn more than $20k or so extra per year for the rest of your career.
I know someone who is in a similar position as you, actually. He is in MO and has been trying to move to the trading desk for a couple of years. Although we would love to give this guy a shot, he simply lacks the math proficiency required by trading. If he were to complete an MFE from a difficult school, there would be little reason for us to say no the next time a trading position opens up. I'm not sure if this is directly related to your situation, but maybe it might be helpful to know about what other people are going through.
Also, have you gotten any feedback from your FO about what you would need to move to their job? If you have a good relationship with them and they know you want to switch to trading, then why not just ask them?作者: Carson 时间: 2011-10-15 05:30
I read 4 sentences....this brings back painful memories....作者: willsucceed 时间: 2011-10-15 05:35
Hey Frank, what do you do now? I remember a few years ago you were in discount brokerage and tried to get out.
P.S. O'Leary has a new book out, I wonder if he will mention any intimate details between Amanda and himself.作者: hoangvu90 时间: 2011-10-15 05:41
Thanks All.
@ohai, I think its a combination of timing, luck and skills (as in practical experience). May be it works a little differently here in Asia wherein for most of the internal openings, they do require someone who has worked in similar capacity before or the other route is throu graduate programs which arent an option for me now at 31 years of age.
I have tried speaking to FO team and all I hear is, you have a good profile , but sorry we are not hiring. read books x,y,z and try in abc team (some different team) which in turn is not hiring either. Some say that it will be tough as they want someone who contirbutes right from day 1. although most say i do have a goof profile (cfa, mba etc).
honeslty i have yet gone to all the potential teams but here is what the few teams I spoke to said.
@frankarabia, i wish i will be able to say the same a few months/years down the line. how did you manage to change.
All, out of the four options I listed, which one do you think I shall pick. it has been 5 years now and i dont think i will be able to convince myself to be happy without getting a better job in FO
please give your valuable inputs作者: RMontgomery 时间: 2011-10-15 05:57
Bsc2010, I think your biggest obstacle is simply timing. With banks laying off 100,000+ employees this year, there simply aren't that many opportunities for career progression in finance.
At some point in the future (2013? 2014? 2015?) the market for financial services employees will swing back to the way things were in 1999 and 2006, and banks will again be scrambling for employees.
At that point, you'll have a much easier time making the change that you describe.作者: pennyless 时间: 2011-10-15 06:03
Not sure about that -- it seems like the contraction is secular as much as cyclical. I expect "permanently" reduced demand for finance professionals over the next decade or so. A lot of people are going to get punted from the industry and never get back in. It doesn't mean there aren't other good jobs to be had (corporate development, CFO track, etc.) but I wouldn't expect that things are going to get magically better over the next couple of years. The financial services industry was bloated. This is maybe the worst possible time to be trying to break in for the first time. It's probably going to be a very long time before we see 1999 or 2006 again.作者: ohai 时间: 2011-10-15 06:08
left DB about 4 years ago. I got the job I set out to get (not investment banking) and just enjoying it as much as I can.
I think Kevin did it with those other two uglier hosts. Those slags would do anything to get more face time.作者: lucasg85 时间: 2011-10-15 06:14
guys
apart from waiting for the good times..what else I can do
please have a look at the options I listed and suggest something
many thanks作者: liquidity 时间: 2011-10-15 06:19
bromion Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Not sure about that -- it seems like the
> contraction is secular as much as cyclical. I
> expect "permanently" reduced demand for finance
> professionals over the next decade or so. A lot of
> people are going to get punted from the industry
> and never get back in. It doesn't mean there
> aren't other good jobs to be had (corporate
> development, CFO track, etc.) but I wouldn't
> expect that things are going to get magically
> better over the next couple of years. The
> financial services industry was bloated. This is
> maybe the worst possible time to be trying to
> break in for the first time. It's probably going
> to be a very long time before we see 1999 or 2006
> again.
I totally agree with this. With all the new regulations that the govt , it is likely 1999 and 2006 will almost never happen again.
Finance is a shrinking field, there will not be a sharp bounce back. At best, the layoffs stop and maybe 10-15% of the few hundred thousand let go get hired back.作者: ayodayo 时间: 2011-10-15 06:25
tough environment. I would build my skills.作者: closelipped 时间: 2011-10-20 03:12
I agree with RMontgomery. Not only is the timing wrong but the whole investment banking industry is changing significantly. With stricter regulation, growing hostility against the industry and lower profit margin, few investment banks will survive. Of course, the stronger ones will live till the end but they won't hire as many as in the past.作者: jzcaris 时间: 2011-11-28 13:00
Frankly speaking it is not a good time to change a role - even internally - since a million people is lining up for your former position. Wait till late 2012 and see.
